Julian:
3:58 PM ronnie, some other guys and I were at a friends house
and we owned him
and he banned me from playing
and said I needed the glasses of something (a card which let you see other people's decks) to look at any of the cards
3:59 PM me: hahaha
never went back?
Julian: I'm not sure when we stopped being friends
4:00 PM but it wouldn't surprise me if it was that night
haha
gotta let some people win
me: do you think that's bad in the end though? Reinforces the fact that if they rage, they will win (even if it means people let them win)
4:01 PM a bit like giving in to the customers that yell until you give them a discount
Julian: nah you gotta let them win
without them realising you let them win
or what's the point
so then there's no reinforcement
me: surely they must know deep down
Julian: that depends on you
4:02 PM I think I can be convincing
me: unlikely that you will go from getting owned to winning
unless it's a luck based game
Julian: most competitive people have big egos
so they can convince themselves you got lucky before
4:03 PM or they improved fast
whatever story they want to make
- discussing this thread, "What is the funniest instance of "rage quitting" you have ever experienced?"
I'm of two minds about the whole letting people win thing. I'm fairly sure that people have let me win in the past, especially when I was a child. I was also a pretty sore loser in my earlier teen years, but I don't think many people let me win then. All that came from being a sore loser or a bad winner was that people didn't really want to play with me and I never got the chance to play the games I liked. So over time, I learned to take wins and losses graciously (or at least I think I do).
One thing that this helps me do, is that in "srs business" (to quote darkpast) games like DotA 2, I am less likely to blame others for losses, without attributing specific things that I think that did/didn't do. This avoids the unhelpful, "YOU'RE A NOOB FEEDER, GO UNINSTALL AND HANG YOURSELF" comments. And it also means I can look at things that I need to improve in my own play style.
We played a game with darkpast today, and he copped a lot of abuse from our two other teammates because he's new to the game and we lost. Olek had a good reply, in that if they were being matched in the same game as darkpast they can't be very highly skilled either. It's something that has never occured to me, and I think it's something that gets forgotten in the heat of the moment. I've been in a lot of games where someone is complaining in All chat (always All chat, never team chat, for some reason), that they are always put in a team with noobs. Some people might be over/underrated while they're still new and the matchmaking system hasn't found an accurate rating for them yet, but if this happens to you game after game after game, don't you eventually think that this might be because this is your skill level?
I messed up this post, as I'm starting my anecdote now, rather than at the start. =(
I think one of the turning points in my relationship with AG was when I brought my PS2 over to his house for a games night. We ended up playing a DDR-type game with dance mats, which he had never played before, and I had obviously played it as I owned it. So of course I beat him. And kept beating him. He started to get really worked up, and even his housemate was looking a bit worried that he was going to explode. So I managed to score a little less than him in the next game and suddenly he was so happy. He wanted to keep playing because he "got it" now, but I said I was tired and didn't want to play anymore.
It doesn't make sense to me at all why he thought he'd be able to beat me at DDR. He thought that gaming (with the exception of chess) was a huge waste of time, but knew that it was something that I put a lot of time into. It would be like if I challenged a professional archer to an archery competition. I would have no illusions about winning. Although now that I think about it, he probably either thought that even though I spend a lot of time playing games, I am bad at it, or that he's just so much better than me that even though he lacks the hours of experience that I have, he can find the "secret" that will let him beat me. To be honest, either of those justifications aren't very positive.
By letting him win, did I just reinforce in his mind that there is some "secret" or that I only got lucky the first few times? What is going to happen if he takes another girl out and tries to impress her with his mad DDR skillz only to fall flat on his face at an arcade because fail mode is turned on? OK, I'll admit that it doesn't hurt to be a winner - it feels good, in fact! I am not saying I advocate not letting someone win for purely selfless and enlightened reasons.
I advocate not letting someone win because I believe learning to lose is an important life skill. Unless you are blessed in life, chances are something will not go your way. You can accept it and work with it/around it, or start screaming like a child and end up on r/TalesFromRetail where you might have gotten your way, but you've gone about it in a way that makes everyone around you feel terrible.
As an aside, I think that working in retail or hospitality really gives you a good perspective on how not to treat other people like crap. Or at least how not to treat other retail or hospitality workers like crap.
Back to the topic, I haven't addressed the letting ragers win part. Obviously, if you think the person is going to go completely crazy and maybe stab you or something like that, then let them (the wookie) win. If you think that they are irrational ragers who constantly blame others, and look like they will never learn, let them win or lose, it doesn't matter, but slowly edge them out of your gaming circle. I've found that once I stopped playing with Baddie #1, my overall gaming experience has gotten better. Sometimes he still gets invited because one of my friends seems to enjoy playing with him, and I am zen. I let it wash away, get it over and done with, and move on. Working full time really makes you appreciate what little time you have left to have fun, and I really don't want to waste too much of it thinking about rager friends. Maybe if they ever stop to realise that nobody wants to play with them anymore, they will change their ways, but I really doubt it.
Reasons not to let people win:
- It gives them a false idea of their skill level
- their incorrectly perceived skill level may lead to them embarrassing themselves in front of others
- once they believe that they are "pro" their mind will start to close to advice from people they perceive as "noobs"
- They never learn to lose graciously
- Your own fun will be diminished because you have to worry about playing convincingly, but still lose (which you can see as a challenge to your own skill, but I think it won't be fun for very long)
- They will pick up bad habits
- Neurotic people like me start to get self-conscious - did I really win, or did they just let me win?
Reasons to let people win:
- If they never win, they may lose interest in the game and stop playing
- on this note, maybe rather than letting them win, just don't beat them as crushingly as you possibly can?
- It makes them feel good
- this might actually improve their performance once they aren't worrying so much about being bad
- They are your significant other
- if you beat them at a game, they will be sad and beat you elsewhere... (no, this isn't a reference to me! I'll admit, when Nev had his "Ask Nevhan" thing on his blog, I asked him what it was like to date a gamer, because I wanted to know if that happened, but he dodged my question - his reply was to ask who asked that question)
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